Episode 186

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Published on:

1st Jun 2026

Why Work Feels Empty and How Behavioral Science Can Fix It with Jackie Dube

This episode is sponsored by Deel.

Hire, manage and pay – anyone, anywhere: https://www.deel.com/nickdayhr/

In this episode of @thehrldpodcast Nick Day is joined by Jackie Dube, Chief People Officer at The Predictive Index, with over two decades of experience helping organizations unlock performance through behavioral science and talent optimization. Grounding her work in a simple but powerful belief, that happy, aligned people do better work and live better lives, Jackie brings both the science and the human heart to one of the most pressing challenges facing workplaces today.

Jackie brings a rare blend of behavioral expertise and people leadership into the world of HR and organizational performance. Together, Nick and Jackie explore why so many employees, despite better tools, more flexibility, and greater leadership investment than ever before, still feel a deep sense of emptiness at work, and what leaders can actually do about it.

This conversation unpacks what it truly means to align people with their work from the inside out. Nick and Jackie discuss why engagement and meaning are not the same thing, how the four behavioral drives of dominance, extraversion, patience, and formality determine what energizes or drains each employee, and why the same task can be deeply motivating for one person and completely demotivating for another. They explore how hiring for speed quietly erodes culture, why interpersonal conflicts at work are almost always behavioral mismatches rather than personality clashes, and how leaders can use the three whys technique to reconnect people to organizational purpose.

They also cover the four forces of engagement, the role of pulse surveys in detecting disengagement early, and how AI adoption is creating a new wave of workforce fear that behavioral science is uniquely equipped to address. The discussion highlights PI's J-curve framework for navigating change, why transparency around AI matters more than most leaders realize, and how understanding what drives each individual is the foundation of a truly high-performing team.

In a world shaped by remote work, rapid AI adoption, and growing disconnection, this episode examines why behavioral science may be the most practical and powerful tool HR and L&D professionals have in 2026 to restore meaning, motivation, and performance across their organizations.

A must-listen for HR leaders, L&D professionals, and anyone ready to stop guessing what their people need and start building workplaces where people are genuinely wired to thrive.

Enjoyed this? Check out our sister podcast @thepayrollpodcast for more great content!

Connect with Jackie Dube & The Predictive Index:

Predictive Index: https://www.predictiveindex.com

Predictive Index behavioural science insights: https://www.predictiveindex.com/blog/

Jackie Dube's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackie-dube/

Nick Day's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickday/

Find your ideal candidate with our job vacancy system: https://jgarecruitment.ck.page/919cf6b9ea

Sign up to the HR L&D Newsletter: https://jgarecruitment.ck.page/23e7b153e7

Stay tuned for the next episode of the HR L&D Podcast, brought to you by Nick Day, CEO at JGA Recruitment, landing soon!

Timestamps:

(00:00) Introduction: Why Work Feels Empty in the Modern Workplace

(01:40) Meet Jackie Dube, Chief People Officer at The Predictive Index

(02:28) Jackie's Origin Story, From Family Therapy to HR

(05:30) How Behavioral Science First Clicked for Jackie

(08:33) What Is Driving the Emptiness at Work Today

(12:44) How Organizations Unintentionally Drain Meaning from Work

(14:39) Early Warning Signs of Disengagement and How to Spot Them

(16:22) The Four Behavioral Drives and How They Shape the Way We Work

(20:13) How Behavioral Differences Create Motivation or Demotivation

(22:52) Why Engagement and Meaning Are Not the Same Thing

(27:31) AI Adoption, Workforce Fear and the J-Curve Framework

(36:01) How The Predictive Index Helps Organizations Build Meaning and Performance

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About the Podcast

The HR L&D Podcast
Leadership, recruitment, culture. Conversations with HR's best
HR gets handed the problems nobody else wants to own. The restructure, the grievance, the engagement survey that came back badly. And then gets asked why people are leaving.

I'm Nick Day. I run an HR recruitment agency, which means I spend most of my week on the phone to HR directors, HR leaders and people leaders talking about what the job is actually like rather than what's written on the job spec. This HR Podcast came out of those calls. I kept hearing things worth repeating, and nobody was repeating them.

Every week I sit down with HR leaders, chief people officers, L&D specialists and the occasional academic who has changed how I think about work and people engagement. We get into leadership, and what happens when someone brilliant at the technical side gets promoted into managing humans.

Employee engagement past the survey score. Diversity, equity and inclusion in a climate where saying those words out loud has become a decision in itself. Pay transparency, talent management, reducing bias in hiring, HR digital transformation and the HCM systems everyone is being sold. And of course we cannot forget HR AI tools and platforms that are flooding the landscape as AI in HR becomes a hot topic every people leader is keen to understand and leverage.

Wellbeing comes up constantly, and it usually turns into the same question. Who looks after the HR team.

I'm not an HR practitioner and I don't pretend to be. I'm the person who hires them, which puts me in a useful position. I get to ask the obvious question that everyone in the room already knows the answer to and nobody says.

No script and no polite version. Mostly it's the conversation you'd have with someone doing your job at a different company, if you ever got the chance to sit down with them.

If you work in HR, people management or L&D, or you're building a career in it, start by subscribing to The HR L&D Podcast. We have had guests including Stephen Covey, Alan Stein Jnr, Andrea Wareham and Dr. Thom Mayer among other HR Leaders who are shaping the future of work and leadership.

Need HR staff? I run JGA Recruitment, an HR and payroll recruitment agency. www.jgarecruitment.com or info@jgarecruitment.com

Want to be on the show? Nick@jgadigital.com

If payroll is closer to your world, I also host The Payroll Podcast, the most listened to payroll show in the world.

Topics include HR leadership, workplace culture, retention, people management, employee engagement, diversity, equity and inclusion, DEI strategy, AI for HR, AI recruitment tools, talent management, HR digital transformation, HCM, staff wellbeing, pay transparency, reducing bias, L&D and HR recruitment.

About your host

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Nick Day