Episode 188

full
Published on:

1st Jul 2026

Leadership Is Worthless. Leading Is Everything with Dr. Thom Mayer

This episode is sponsored by Deel.

Hire, manage and pay, anyone, anywhere: https://www.deel.com/nickdayhr/

In this episode of @thehrldpodcast Nick Day is joined by Dr. Thom Mayer, emergency physician, crisis leader, NFL Players Association Medical Director, and bestselling author of Leadership Is Worthless But Leading Is Priceless. Having led through 9/11 at the Pentagon, the national anthrax response, and medical training on the ground in Ukraine, Dr. Mayer brings a career forged under the highest pressure imaginable to challenge everything we think we know about what it means to lead.

Nick and Dr. Mayer explore why the concept of leadership has become dangerously hollow, why every person on your team is already a leader whether you treat them that way or not, and why innovation never moves at the speed of genius but always at the speed of trust. They unpack the critical difference between bravery, courage, and tenacity, why making failure your fuel is the foundation of elite performance, how victim mentality disappears the moment people own their agency, and why calling someone a future leader is one of the most toxic things you can say. They also examine how AI is being dangerously misused as a substitute for leadership wisdom and why luck is really just a discipline meeting opportunity.

In a world where trust is eroding, burnout is rising, and pressure is relentless, this episode makes the case that the leader you have been looking for has been there all along and it is you.

A must-listen for HR leaders, L&D professionals, and anyone ready to stop talking about leadership and start actually leading.

Enjoyed this? Check out our sister podcast @thepayrollpodcast for more great content!

Dr. Thom Mayer's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thom-mayer-md-40342024/

Nick Day's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickday/

Find your ideal candidate with our job vacancy system: https://jgarecruitment.ck.page/919cf6b9ea

Sign up to the HR L&D Newsletter: https://jgarecruitment.ck.page/23e7b153e7

Stay tuned for the next episode of the HR L&D Podcast, brought to you by Nick Day, CEO at JGA Recruitment, landing soon!

Timestamps:

(00:01) Why Leadership Is Worthless But Leading Is Priceless

(02:09) Everyone Is Already a Leader, Not a Future One

(05:15) The We Suite vs The C Suite, Empowerment Over Hierarchy

(08:10) Vulnerability, Authenticity and Making Failure Your Fuel

(15:23) Leadership as Identity vs Leadership as Behavior

(18:12) Leading Through 9/11, the NFL and Ukraine

(22:36) Bravery, Courage and Tenacity, Three Very Different Things

(28:44) Can AI Close the Leadership Gap or Is It Widening It

(39:00) The Book and Why It Is Not Just Another Leadership Book

(43:06) Luck, Discipline and Saying Yes to the Invitation

(46:11) Limiting Beliefs and How They Hold Leaders Back

(50:24) How to Sustain Leadership Performance and Connect with Dr. Thom Mayer

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for The HR L&D Podcast

About the Podcast

The HR L&D Podcast
Leadership, recruitment, culture. Conversations with HR's best
HR gets handed the problems nobody else wants to own. The restructure, the grievance, the engagement survey that came back badly. And then gets asked why people are leaving.

I'm Nick Day. I run an HR recruitment agency, which means I spend most of my week on the phone to HR directors, HR leaders and people leaders talking about what the job is actually like rather than what's written on the job spec. This HR Podcast came out of those calls. I kept hearing things worth repeating, and nobody was repeating them.

Every week I sit down with HR leaders, chief people officers, L&D specialists and the occasional academic who has changed how I think about work and people engagement. We get into leadership, and what happens when someone brilliant at the technical side gets promoted into managing humans.

Employee engagement past the survey score. Diversity, equity and inclusion in a climate where saying those words out loud has become a decision in itself. Pay transparency, talent management, reducing bias in hiring, HR digital transformation and the HCM systems everyone is being sold. And of course we cannot forget HR AI tools and platforms that are flooding the landscape as AI in HR becomes a hot topic every people leader is keen to understand and leverage.

Wellbeing comes up constantly, and it usually turns into the same question. Who looks after the HR team.

I'm not an HR practitioner and I don't pretend to be. I'm the person who hires them, which puts me in a useful position. I get to ask the obvious question that everyone in the room already knows the answer to and nobody says.

No script and no polite version. Mostly it's the conversation you'd have with someone doing your job at a different company, if you ever got the chance to sit down with them.

If you work in HR, people management or L&D, or you're building a career in it, start by subscribing to The HR L&D Podcast. We have had guests including Stephen Covey, Alan Stein Jnr, Andrea Wareham and Dr. Thom Mayer among other HR Leaders who are shaping the future of work and leadership.

Need HR staff? I run JGA Recruitment, an HR and payroll recruitment agency. www.jgarecruitment.com or info@jgarecruitment.com

Want to be on the show? Nick@jgadigital.com

If payroll is closer to your world, I also host The Payroll Podcast, the most listened to payroll show in the world.

Topics include HR leadership, workplace culture, retention, people management, employee engagement, diversity, equity and inclusion, DEI strategy, AI for HR, AI recruitment tools, talent management, HR digital transformation, HCM, staff wellbeing, pay transparency, reducing bias, L&D and HR recruitment.

About your host

Profile picture for Nick Day

Nick Day